Alfa Romeo and Maserati cannot coexist.

"Wilsonic" (wilsonic) 07/07/2017 at 12:03 • Filed to: None

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Watching a video about the Ghibli, I wondered to myself why FCA would offer a version of the Giulia to compete with it? Then I asked myself, why does either company exist under the same corporate umbrella?

It’s not like the premium car market is wide open with no competition. Hell, even the Koreans are getting in on the action with the Genesis series. I don’t see how FCA can justify supporting two premium Italian marques that both offer similar sized sedans and SUVs.

You could argue that the overlap is not complete. Alfa sells lower market models internationally and the 4C is unlike any recent Maserati. And the Gran Turismo is unlike any Alfa currently offered. But why sell lower market Alfas that take sales away from higher market Fiats, or sell higher market Alfas that take sales away from Maserati? Is there really that much room in the market to have this sort of overlap?

I’m not saying that FCA should kill Alfa. I love the idea of Alfa, a company that has a history of building bold cars that are as irrational as they are passionate. But I can’t help but feel that dedicating resources to both Alfa and Maserati dilutes their products. I feel like FCA could build better cars if they could concentrate on one premium marque instead of two.

Maybe you could make Maserati ultra premium to distance it from Alfa, but then it would be competing with Ferrari. Though Maserati has a greater focus on comfort and touring, Ferrari is increasingly branching out into comfort and touring with models like the California and the FF.

Ultimately, I suppose it is too difficult a decision to decide which company has to die. And maybe that is why both companies exist side by side. But if FCA doesn’t organize and streamline its somewhat scatterbrained lineup of products, shrinking profit margins could close the doors on both Alfa and Maserati.

Image sourced from Automobile Magazine.

DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! > Wilsonic 07/07/2017 at 12:10

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If I had to pick one to say goodbye to, It’d be Maserati. Apart from the Ghibli, I don’t think anyone’s really clamoring to dealerships to buy a Maserati over a comparable Jaguar. They’re fine cars imo, but they’re highly mismanaged, they have a “halo” car that’s ten years out of date, and their two sedans look the same...not to mention the travesty that is the Levante. Alfa shows promise, Maserati seems confused.

Textured Soy Protein > Wilsonic 07/07/2017 at 12:15

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This is nothing new.

The Giulia starts at $38k and competes in size and price against the 3/C/A4 etc.

The Ghibli starts at $72k and competes in size and price against the mid-level and up engine options of the 5/E/A6 etc.

Yes the Giulia QF gets into the price range of the Ghibli, but the M3, C63 and RS4 all get up into the price range of the 5/E/A6.

Vítor > Wilsonic 07/07/2017 at 12:15

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I’d make Maserati an Italian Bentley, while Alfa Romeo would focus on BMW/Audi/etc. Maserati line-up would be a new Quattroporte, a brand new GranTurismo/Cabrio, and a larger, more luxurious, Bentayga-like Levante, with the Alfieri as the brand entry-level. Alfa Romeo however would have a new, A-Class/A3 like Giulietta, the Giulia (with sedan and wagon body), its version of the Ghibli (also with a wagon body), the Stelvio, its version of the Levante and a 6C, which would be Alfa’s Levante

I’d also keep Alfa Romeo as a sporty brand and make Lancia its more serious, luxurious and techy brother. Both would share the same models but with different focus, and they would also share the dealerships and most of the drivetrain, similar to Hyundai and Kia.

Chariotoflove > Wilsonic 07/07/2017 at 12:22

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I’m not saying that FCA should kill Alfa.

I am. Alfa should die. They make lousy quality cars for too much money that (IMO) don’t even look good. Every reviewer I’ve read makes excuses for their quality issues by invoking “soul” and “passion”. How about being passionate about making a good car?

Really though, Alfa, Maserati, and Ferrari reach different markets, even though their cars may sometimes overlap on paper. It’s not redundancy like GM’s divisions pre-crash. Still, your point about apportionment of resources is well taken. Sometimes a company can get too distracted to do any of its projects as well as they should be, and it can certainly be argued that FCA has this problem.

awmaster10 > Chariotoflove 07/07/2017 at 12:26

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Your first paragraph describes the Ghibli perfectly though. Its a 5series with the infotainment from a chrysler and $20k higher price tag. I find Alfa SLIGHTLY more compelling.

jasmits > Chariotoflove 07/07/2017 at 12:26

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Not seeing where Ferrari fits in to this but if one had to die between Alfa and Maserati it should clearly be Maserati. Maserati hasn’t made a product people clamored for in decades, Alfa at least catches people’s attention. Also, Alfa is a stronger brand at this point, Maserati has turned out too much absolute garbage over the decades while Alfa has always been known for great but flawed cars.

Chariotoflove > awmaster10 07/07/2017 at 12:48

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I haven’t driven a Ghibli, but from the reviews I’ve read, it’s a good car. The main knock on it seems to be just what you cite, that it’s got too much Chrysler in it to be worth the upcharge.

PS9 > Wilsonic 07/07/2017 at 12:48

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Here’s all the problems with Alfa and Maser as I see them;

1) The Ghibli is an unpronouncable mis-mosh of letters. This would not be a problem if it sounded cool when you said it. But it does not sound cool. Pronouncing ‘Ghibli’ makes me feel like a can of alphabet soup is trying to escape from my mouth. Not cool. If the name is not cool, the car is not cool. We rag on alphanumerics around here a lot, but the one thing I will give that kind of nomenclature is it’s not easy to come up with an uncool name for a car when using it.

2) The Ghibli is $72k. Wat. No, seriously. WAT?? Look guys, I know the higher ups at FCA want Maser to be the italian Mercedes Benz. Cool. But listen; The E class does not start out at $72-fucking-k. Those are AMG sized numbers for a base trim level car with an uncool name. No. This pricing is why the Ghibli is at the bottom of the market currently.

3) Before slagging off the Giulia, I will give it this much; that’s a way cooler sounding name. It’s actually pleasant to say. “Giulia.”

4) Now that that’s over with, the Giulia is clearly aimed at the 3 Series, but it costs more. Paying more than german numbers for a not-german car - whatever it is - is going to be a huge turn off to a lot of people and you have to understand that. If you can get a 3 series for ~33k, you’re not going to challenge BMW hegemony without offering something for less than that. No that is not fair, but no one who buys german luxury cares about fairness.

5) The Giulia Quadrofiglio (more cool name stuff) is $10k over an M3. No. Nope. All the no to this. It doesn’t matter that it is faster. A Camaro is faster than an M3 under the right circumstances. That is not an achievement. This right here hurts the brand more than anything else. You’re not going to lure M die-hards over to the lot this way.

6) The Giulia Q costs $10k less than the Ghibli S. It’s also much faster than the Ghibli S. This would be like GM making the Camaro SS faster than the Vette. That you don’t even have to leave the brand family to find a better car than the Ghibli says some things about the identity of these to brands and how well FCA has managed them thus far, and none of it is good.

Chariotoflove > jasmits 07/07/2017 at 12:58

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I think the Ghibli has sold pretty well, and isn’t the Levante being well received? Overall Maserati sales have been good since 2014, and they are making money. Also, the Alfieri made quite a buzz. And the Gran Turismo is my favorite car ever. I don’t see where Maserati is putting out garbage. That seems to be Alfa’s job. When you say “great” I hear “fun as a recreational toy”, and when you say “flawed”, I hear “worthless as an actual vehicle”.

jasmits > Chariotoflove 07/07/2017 at 13:26

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Read or watch any review on the Ghibli, it’s actually pretty shit considering the sticker. Read or watch any Giulia review and it’s pretty positive. It still isn’t screwed together quite as well as the German competition but it’s certainly catching up and it still hasn’t lost it’s Alfa-ness and most importantly it feels like an Alfa and not a parts-bin special.

The Stelvio is at least as well received if not better received than the Levante and neither of them are proven in the real market yet.

I’m biased, I’ve owned an Alfa and hope to own more in the future and you seem to be too if the Gran Turismo is your favorite car ever. I don’t think either wins a reliability argument, both are historically shit and current models are still unproven so you can’t really say an Alfa is “worthless as an actual vehicle” and imply a Maserati is any better but Alfa plays at a better second-car price point.

Chariotoflove > jasmits 07/07/2017 at 13:52

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Well the Guilia is looking like it should improve Alfa’s market position, that’s true. Before that, their high profile new car was the 4C, which from all I read is hard, uncomfortable, and rattles. Overall, a poor car to live with. Maybe the new SUV and the Guilia will be a better measure of Alfa’s future though

What I read of the Ghibli is that it is a good car, but not worth the up charge. People complain about the parts bin thing, but I don’t get it. When I sit in it, it feels quality to me. But then I’m one of the poors so am not qualified I guess.Anyway, yeah I’m biased. I guess that’s what Italian cars do to people. That’s what makes the car world more fun than if there were just BMW and Mercedes. :)

jasmits > Chariotoflove 07/07/2017 at 14:08

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I had my Alfa 164 alongside a similar era BMW(E36 318ti). I think the best summation of having both a 90s Italian car and a 90s German car is that the Alfa was amazing when it worked but broken often. The BMW was(is) very good all of the time. I still have the BMW, I truly wish I still had the Alfa, but I know if I had to make the choice of which to keep again I’d have to choose the BMW again.

Now I want a GTV6 :) :) :)

P.S. The 4C was only ever supposed to be a toy, it picked up a high profile because it marked Alfa’s return to the US market and was a bit of a ‘look at me! I’m like a mini Ferrari!’ play to get some attention and see if they still had any brand recognition before federalizing normal models.

duurtlang > Wilsonic 07/07/2017 at 14:48

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Alfa typically built ‘normal’ cars with a very sporty edge. Note I said sporty, not powerful, as they’re quite unrelated. A small brand but still a volume brand. Maserati built, what, less insane Ferarris and exotic super sedans? It’s always been a niche brand.

So, traditionally, there was no real overlap. Moving the Giulia upmarket makes sense as nobody (in Europe) buys large sedans (like the Giulia) without a luxury badge. That’s where the new found overlap comes from. FCA simply needs to move Maserati out of the way, as Alfa seems to have a lot more potential.

If FCA needs focus they could discontinue either Dodge or Chrysler. They seem rather superfluous.

ranwhenparked > Wilsonic 07/07/2017 at 15:29

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I always thought it made the most sense to push Maserati upmarket, into Rolls-Royce/Bentley territory and make Alfa Romeo the “mainstream” luxury brand, in the place Imperial used to occupy. But, FCA decided to go after volume and position Maserati against BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Lexus; leaving Alfa Romeo in pretty much the same segment, maybe slightly lower, but I think that’s more a symptom of the currently limited model range than any real strategy.

Another option might be to have Maserati focus on “traditional” luxury and go after people looking for comfort, and leave all performance and sporting cars to Alfa.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Wilsonic 07/07/2017 at 16:42

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The reason they coexist in the same market bracket is because FCA doesn’t have the investment capital to push both marques to where they want them to be.

Maserati should be filling Ferrari’s shoes with a panamera-competitor and an SUV on the side. Alfa Romeo should be about where BMW is.

They’ve only really got the spare cash to develop on to the point of profitability at one time. Alfa’s first. If that succeeds, i’d expect Maserati to be next.

NojustNo > Wilsonic 07/07/2017 at 19:52

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Did somebody call for Dibbley?